Discussion:
"Dem Officials Cooking Up Plan to Obliterate Memorial Above Grave of Confederate, Unearth the Deceased Officer"
(too old to reply)
Bill Flett
2021-05-31 16:18:51 UTC
Permalink
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-obliterate-memorial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a Confederate
Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the American left
continues its campaign to rewrite history.
Good, and if a NAZI symbol was unearthed and burned
I'd be quite happy too.
The Confederacy was a TRAITOROUS attempt to
overthrow the US govt and constitution.
Not only that it sought to destroy America
in order to keep it's slave-driven economy.
No one forgets the civil war, but no patriotic
decent thinking AMERICAN should revere those
that attempted to destroy America and
American values, killing hundreds of thousands
of Americans in the process.
I agree with all the facts you've given but not your attitude or your
politics. I grew up in a Northern state that provided a large percent
of it's [sic]
*its*, you illiterate blowjob.
male population to the war. I have no direct connection to the
Southern cause.
You have an intellectual connection to it. You're a racist white supremacist.
However, I believe the latest orgy of destruction is not aimed at
Southern history but the history of the nation in general.
Only to the extent that slavery and white supremacy are part and parcel of the
history of the nation...which, of course, they are. But those traitor memorials
are something else altogether. Those are not part of *American* history — they
are purely symbols of a false history fabricated by traitors. They *ALSO* were
only raised in order to cement Jim Crow — racist white supremacy — into place.
This is settled.
Jonathan
2021-05-31 23:18:14 UTC
Permalink
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-obliterate-memorial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a Confederate
Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the American left
continues its campaign to rewrite history.
Good, and if a NAZI symbol was unearthed and burned
I'd be quite happy too.
The Confederacy was a TRAITOROUS attempt to
overthrow the US govt and constitution.
Not only that it sought to destroy America
in order to keep it's slave-driven economy.
No one forgets the civil war, but no patriotic
decent thinking AMERICAN should revere those
that attempted to destroy America and
American values, killing hundreds of thousands
of Americans in the process.
I agree with all the facts you've given but not your attitude or your
politics. I grew up in a Northern state that provided a large percent
of it's male population to the war. I have no direct connection to the
Southern cause.
However, I believe the latest orgy of destruction is not aimed at
Southern history but the history of the nation in general.
Do you really believe that it's about 'history' and
not about glorifying slavery and racism?

You're kidding yourself.

And I were to get horribly offended at the
destruction of NAZI symbols, claiming I'm
just worried about 'history', would you
believe that I'm not a supporter of Hitler?
Don't forget - there are statues of Lincoln and Washington that have
come down in recent months.
Doesn't bother me.
--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1
Kurt Nicklas
2021-06-01 05:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-obliterate-memorial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a Confederate
Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the American left
continues its campaign to rewrite history.
Good, and if a NAZI symbol was unearthed and burned
I'd be quite happy too.
The Confederacy was a TRAITOROUS attempt to
overthrow the US govt and constitution.
Not only that it sought to destroy America
in order to keep it's slave-driven economy.
No one forgets the civil war, but no patriotic
decent thinking AMERICAN should revere those
that attempted to destroy America and
American values, killing hundreds of thousands
of Americans in the process.
I agree with all the facts you've given but not your attitude or your
politics. I grew up in a Northern state that provided a large percent
of it's male population to the war. I have no direct connection to the
Southern cause.
However, I believe the latest orgy of destruction is not aimed at
Southern history but the history of the nation in general.
Do you really believe that it's about 'history' and
not about glorifying slavery and racism?
Statues to Confederate generals etc were not set up to 'glorify
slavery and racism'.
Post by Jonathan
You're kidding yourself.
I'm not that ignorant.
Post by Jonathan
And I were to get horribly offended at the
destruction of NAZI symbols, claiming I'm
just worried about 'history', would you
believe that I'm not a supporter of Hitler?
I have a 1939 Iron Cross and a 1935 edition
of 'Mein Kampf' because I collect historical knick-knacks and not
because I love nazis.
Post by Jonathan
Don't forget - there are statues of Lincoln and Washington that have
come down in recent months.
Doesn't bother me.
So you think Lincoln and Washington 'glorified slavery and racism' or
you're simply ignorant in a more general way?

Would bringing down statues of ML King, FDR and JFK bother you?
Jonathan
2021-06-01 13:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Jonathan
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-obliterate-memorial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a Confederate
Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the American left
continues its campaign to rewrite history.
Good, and if a NAZI symbol was unearthed and burned
I'd be quite happy too.
The Confederacy was a TRAITOROUS attempt to
overthrow the US govt and constitution.
Not only that it sought to destroy America
in order to keep it's slave-driven economy.
No one forgets the civil war, but no patriotic
decent thinking AMERICAN should revere those
that attempted to destroy America and
American values, killing hundreds of thousands
of Americans in the process.
I agree with all the facts you've given but not your attitude or your
politics. I grew up in a Northern state that provided a large percent
of it's male population to the war. I have no direct connection to the
Southern cause.
However, I believe the latest orgy of destruction is not aimed at
Southern history but the history of the nation in general.
Do you really believe that it's about 'history' and
not about glorifying slavery and racism?
Statues to Confederate generals etc were not set up to 'glorify
slavery and racism'.
Bullshit most of the Confederate statues went up
at the same time the KKK made a comeback. That
wasn't a coincidence.

It was their way of letting everyone know
white supremacy runs the nation, just like
today with Trumpsters bringing white supremacy
back into the mainstream.

You say it's about history, but are ignorant
of this simple and defining fact of this
specific period of history.

Why is that? Does this below sound familiar???

See the chart in the first link, most statues
were build in the early 1900's, the same time
the KKK made it's big comeback.


Confederate Statues Were Never Really About Preserving
History
By Ryan Best

Confederate monuments by year dedicated
(chart)

The biggest spike in Confederate memorials came during the
early 1900s, soon after Southern states enacted a number
of sweeping laws to disenfranchise Black Americans and
segregate society. During this period, more than 400 monuments
were built as part of an organized strategy to reshape
Civil War history. And this effort was largely spearheaded
by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, who sponsored
hundreds of statues, predominantly in the South in the
early 20th century — and as recently as 2011.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/confederate-statues/


The Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s

Nearly 50 years later, in 1915, "Colonel" William Joseph
Simmons, revived the Klan after seeing D. W. Griffith's
film Birth of A Nation, which portrayed the Klansmen as great heroes
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/flood-klan/





HUMAN RIGHTS
POLITICS
HISTORY
The group behind Confederate monuments also built a memorial to the Klan

Consider the United Daughters of the Confederacy. The
Richmond, Virginia-based group is best known for erecting
monuments to Confederate veterans, but its influence on
American history is far more pervasive.

It was against this backdrop that the UDC flourished, eventually
growing to almost 100,000** members nationwide and gaining
an astounding amount of political power for a women's
organization in a time when women could not even vote.

To that end, the UDC launched a long-term campaign to re-write
the history of the Civil War, the South, and the country.
By building monuments to the Confederacy and gaining control
of school curricula, the Daughters spread a false history
aimed at perpetuating the culture and ideals of the
Civil War-era South, a society built on white supremacy.
And they were remarkably successful.

Their delivery vehicle was the "Lost Cause" ideology, which
promoted broad, romanticized, largely fictional assertions
designed to absolve the South from any blame in the Civil War
and to vindicate the Southern cause. It was pure propaganda.
Its core assertions:

States rights (usually, the right to secede) and not slavery
were the cause of the Civil War.

Slaves were content and happy and not mistreated in slavery.
In fact, they benefited from slavery.

Confederate soldiers were heroic, mythical figures to be revered
for defending the South and its way of life.

Although never named as its goal, white supremacy underpins
the entire "Lost Cause" ideology. To focus only on one part,
like the monument building, means missing the forest
for the trees.


https://www.facingsouth.org/2018/06/group-behind-confederate-monuments-also-built-memorial-klan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Jonathan
You're kidding yourself.
I'm not that ignorant.
Post by Jonathan
And I were to get horribly offended at the
destruction of NAZI symbols, claiming I'm
just worried about 'history', would you
believe that I'm not a supporter of Hitler?
I have a 1939 Iron Cross and a 1935 edition
of 'Mein Kampf' because I collect historical knick-knacks and not
because I love nazis.
Post by Jonathan
Don't forget - there are statues of Lincoln and Washington that have
come down in recent months.
Doesn't bother me.
So you think Lincoln and Washington 'glorified slavery and racism' or
you're simply ignorant in a more general way?
Would bringing down statues of ML King, FDR and JFK bother you?
--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1
Kurt Nicklas
2021-06-01 13:59:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan
Why is that? Does this below sound familiar???
It sounds familiar because you're an idiot.
Jonathan
2021-06-01 14:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Jonathan
Why is that? Does this below sound familiar???
It sounds familiar because you're an idiot.
Of course you didn't read the 'history' I provided
on this issue, as they say ignorance of bliss.

In this case the deliberate ignorance of a racist
refusing to take his white colored glasses off.
--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1
Kurt Nicklas
2021-06-01 14:25:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Jonathan
Why is that? Does this below sound familiar???
It sounds familiar because you're an idiot.
Of course you didn't read the 'history' I provided
on Jolly Kone and why it's a great place to go on weekends.
For the same reason I don't read textbooks on CRT or 'White
Privilege', moron.

Do you think you're smarter than Robin DiAngelo??

Do you own more houses than BLM?

Haha.
Jonathan
2021-06-01 14:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Jonathan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Jonathan
Why is that? Does this below sound familiar???
It sounds familiar because you're an idiot.
Of course you didn't read the 'history' I provided
on Jolly Kone and why it's a great place to go on weekends.
For the same reason I don't read textbooks on CRT or 'White
Privilege', moron.
Do you think you're smarter than Robin DiAngelo??
Do you own more houses than BLM?
Haha.
Your replies are embarrassing the typical
high-school dropout.

Here is your grade for this reply....


--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1
David Hartung
2021-06-01 12:23:33 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:04:37 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 16:04:04 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 12:45:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-obliter
at e-me morial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a
Confederate Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the
American left continues its campaign to rewrite history.
The city of Richmond, Virginia, is currently finalizing plans to
disinter the remains of Gen. Ambrose Powell ???A.P.??? Hill
and to tear down the monument that honors his life. WRIC-TV
reported that, under the orders from city officials, including
millennial Democratic Mayor Levar Stoney, Hill will be dug up
and erased from the city???s collective memory.
A committee right now is looking over the logistics of that, and
is working with descendants of Hill regarding where to relocate
his remains. [...]
Hill is being canceled 136 years after he was shot through the
heart by a Union soldier on April 2, 1865 ??? just weeks
before the end of the Civil War. By all accounts, Hill never
owned any slaves and never supported slavery. He simply felt
compelled to fight for Virginians during a time when many
Americans were more concerned about their neighbors and their
individual states than their loyalty to the nation as a whole.
[...]
This is a key point, Loyalty to the national government rather
than to the state was still a developing concept in 1861.
When Hill graduated West Point
he swore an oath of loyalty the US
Constitution, not his state.
<LOL> wrong, Dummy. The oath was to the states until 1861.
Please support.
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/west-point-oath-of-allegiance.120786
/
It changed several times and the pleadge was, at times, to follow
the orders of the President and/or superior officers.
https://fredericksburg.com/opinion/letters/letter-confederate-general
s-
didnt-violate-oaths/article_3c4975e6-d8c2-5c3f-941c-930f1550e482.html
Location
Right here.
Jan 16, 2016
#22
Watching a Civil War Journal video on Youtube about Westpoint
classmates who became Civil War enemies I found it remarkable that
up until 1861 the cadets swore the Oath of Allegiance to their home
states. Only in 1861 that was changed and the cadets had to swear
their Oath of Allegiance now to the United States. At that time
there were still a lot of cadets from the southern states attending
the USMA and the change of the oath must have been a tough thing for
them.
?The day after the firing on Fort Sumter, the United States
Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, directed that all United States
Military Academy (West Point) cadets must take a "new oath of
allegiance." Previously, each cadet had taken an "oath of allegiance
to his respective State." Now, they were required to "swear feilty*
to the United Statesparamount to any other state, county or
political entity." While the cadets were in full uniform, the new
oath was administered in the chapel in the presence of the Academy
staff. ?
http://thomaslegion.net/generalroberteleestateloyalty.html
What I'm asking myself is, if the earlier graduates had sworn
the
oath to their respective states, how could they become regarded as
traitors later when they showed loyalty to their states according to
their oaths?
This is not meant as a provocation, but to help me understand
better. Thanks in advance for your comments!
http://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-oath-of-allegiance.1035/
Click to expand...
"I, Robert E. Lee, a cadet born in the state of Virginia, aged 18
years and nine months, do hereby acknowledge to have this day
voluntarily engaged with the consent of my mother to serve in Army
of the United States for the period of five years, unless sooner
discharged by proper authority. And I do promise upon honor that I
will observe and obey the orders of the officers appointed over me,
the rules and articles of war, and the regulations which have been
or may hereafter be established for the government of the Military
Academy"
Beside the point. The issue is the oath that
West Point cadets took when GRADUATING, not when
they entered as cadets.
Actually, the key point is that Lee and others formally resigned their
commissions.
They had sworn an oath to the
United States, they betrayed that
oath and waged war against the United
States. Isn't that.........treason?
treason
-the offense of acting to overthrow one's
government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
-a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign
or to one's state.
-the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach
of faith; treachery.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/treason
In order to answer that question, one must determine to what entity
allegiance is owed. Those men who resigned their commissions in the US
Army and then "went south" had concluded that their allegiance to their
state outweigh any allegiance they might have owed to the national
government.
David, you might ask Hollowman how many Confederate soldiers were ever
charged or tried for treason. I believe the answer is zero, therefore
they were not guilty of treason.
https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2020/07/11/were-confederate-soldiers-tried-for-treason/
You likely have a point, but don't expect him to admit it.
Bill Flett
2021-06-01 14:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hartung
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:04:37 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 16:04:04 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 12:45:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-obliter
at e-me morial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a
Confederate Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the
American left continues its campaign to rewrite history.
The city of Richmond, Virginia, is currently finalizing plans to
disinter the remains of Gen. Ambrose Powell ???A.P.??? Hill
and to tear down the monument that honors his life. WRIC-TV
reported that, under the orders from city officials, including
millennial Democratic Mayor Levar Stoney, Hill will be dug up
and erased from the city???s collective memory.
A committee right now is looking over the logistics of that, and
is working with descendants of Hill regarding where to relocate
his remains. [...]
Hill is being canceled 136 years after he was shot through the
heart by a Union soldier on April 2, 1865 ??? just weeks
before the end of the Civil War. By all accounts, Hill never
owned any slaves and never supported slavery. He simply felt
compelled to fight for Virginians during a time when many
Americans were more concerned about their neighbors and their
individual states than their loyalty to the nation as a whole.
[...]
This is a key point, Loyalty to the national government rather
than to the state was still a developing concept in 1861.
        When Hill graduated West Point
he swore an oath of loyalty the US
Constitution, not his state.
<LOL> wrong, Dummy. The oath was to the states until 1861.
Please support.
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/west-point-oath-of-allegiance.120786
/
It changed several times and the pleadge was, at times, to follow
the orders of the President and/or superior officers.
https://fredericksburg.com/opinion/letters/letter-confederate-general
s-
didnt-violate-oaths/article_3c4975e6-d8c2-5c3f-941c-930f1550e482.html
Location
       Right here.
       Jan 16, 2016
       #22
       Watching a Civil War Journal video on Youtube about Westpoint
classmates who became Civil War enemies I found it remarkable that
up until 1861 the cadets swore the Oath of Allegiance to their home
states. Only in 1861 that was changed and the cadets had to swear
their Oath of Allegiance now to the United States. At that time
there were still a lot of cadets from the southern states attending
the USMA and the change of the oath must have been a tough thing for
them.
       ?The day after the firing on Fort Sumter, the United States
Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, directed that all United States
Military Academy (West Point) cadets must take a "new oath of
allegiance." Previously, each cadet had taken an "oath of allegiance
to his respective State." Now, they were required to "swear feilty*
to the United Statesparamount to any other state, county or
political entity." While the cadets were in full uniform, the new
oath was administered in the chapel in the presence of the Academy
staff. ?
       http://thomaslegion.net/generalroberteleestateloyalty.html
       What I'm asking myself is, if the earlier graduates had sworn
       the
oath to their respective states, how could they become regarded as
traitors later when they showed loyalty to their states according to
their oaths?
       This is not meant as a provocation, but to help me understand
better. Thanks in advance for your comments!
       http://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-oath-of-allegiance.1035/
       Click to expand...
"I, Robert E. Lee, a cadet born in the state of Virginia, aged 18
years and nine months, do hereby acknowledge to have this day
voluntarily engaged with the consent of my mother to serve in Army
of the United States for the period of five years, unless sooner
discharged by proper authority. And I do promise upon honor that I
will observe and obey the orders of the officers appointed over me,
the rules and articles of war, and the regulations which have been
or may hereafter be established for the government of the Military
Academy"
       Beside the point. The issue is the oath that
West Point cadets took when GRADUATING, not when
they entered as cadets.
Actually, the key point is that Lee and others formally resigned their
commissions.
       They had sworn an oath to the
United States, they betrayed that
oath and waged war against the United
States. Isn't that.........treason?
treason
-the offense of acting to overthrow one's
government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
-a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign
or to one's state.
-the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach
of faith; treachery.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/treason
In order to answer that question, one must determine to what entity
allegiance is owed. Those men who resigned their commissions in the US
Army and then "went south" had concluded that their allegiance to their
state outweigh any allegiance they might have owed to the national
government.
David, you might ask Hollowman how many Confederate soldiers were ever
charged or tried for treason. I believe the answer is zero, therefore
they were not guilty of treason.
https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2020/07/11/were-confederate-soldiers-tried-for-treason/
You likely have a point,
He doesn't. Treason charges against Lee and others were in the works until
Johnson, a southern sympathizer, issued a blanket pardon.
Kurt Nicklas
2021-06-01 14:53:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 07:23:33 -0500, David Hartung
Post by David Hartung
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:04:37 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 16:04:04 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 12:45:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-obliter
at e-me morial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a
Confederate Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the
American left continues its campaign to rewrite history.
The city of Richmond, Virginia, is currently finalizing plans to
disinter the remains of Gen. Ambrose Powell ???A.P.??? Hill
and to tear down the monument that honors his life. WRIC-TV
reported that, under the orders from city officials, including
millennial Democratic Mayor Levar Stoney, Hill will be dug up
and erased from the city???s collective memory.
A committee right now is looking over the logistics of that, and
is working with descendants of Hill regarding where to relocate
his remains. [...]
Hill is being canceled 136 years after he was shot through the
heart by a Union soldier on April 2, 1865 ??? just weeks
before the end of the Civil War. By all accounts, Hill never
owned any slaves and never supported slavery. He simply felt
compelled to fight for Virginians during a time when many
Americans were more concerned about their neighbors and their
individual states than their loyalty to the nation as a whole.
[...]
This is a key point, Loyalty to the national government rather
than to the state was still a developing concept in 1861.
When Hill graduated West Point
he swore an oath of loyalty the US
Constitution, not his state.
<LOL> wrong, Dummy. The oath was to the states until 1861.
Please support.
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/west-point-oath-of-allegiance.120786
/
It changed several times and the pleadge was, at times, to follow
the orders of the President and/or superior officers.
https://fredericksburg.com/opinion/letters/letter-confederate-general
s-
didnt-violate-oaths/article_3c4975e6-d8c2-5c3f-941c-930f1550e482.html
Location
Right here.
Jan 16, 2016
#22
Watching a Civil War Journal video on Youtube about Westpoint
classmates who became Civil War enemies I found it remarkable that
up until 1861 the cadets swore the Oath of Allegiance to their home
states. Only in 1861 that was changed and the cadets had to swear
their Oath of Allegiance now to the United States. At that time
there were still a lot of cadets from the southern states attending
the USMA and the change of the oath must have been a tough thing for
them.
?The day after the firing on Fort Sumter, the United States
Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, directed that all United States
Military Academy (West Point) cadets must take a "new oath of
allegiance." Previously, each cadet had taken an "oath of allegiance
to his respective State." Now, they were required to "swear feilty*
to the United Statesparamount to any other state, county or
political entity." While the cadets were in full uniform, the new
oath was administered in the chapel in the presence of the Academy
staff. ?
http://thomaslegion.net/generalroberteleestateloyalty.html
What I'm asking myself is, if the earlier graduates had sworn
the
oath to their respective states, how could they become regarded as
traitors later when they showed loyalty to their states according to
their oaths?
This is not meant as a provocation, but to help me understand
better. Thanks in advance for your comments!
http://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-oath-of-allegiance.1035/
Click to expand...
"I, Robert E. Lee, a cadet born in the state of Virginia, aged 18
years and nine months, do hereby acknowledge to have this day
voluntarily engaged with the consent of my mother to serve in Army
of the United States for the period of five years, unless sooner
discharged by proper authority. And I do promise upon honor that I
will observe and obey the orders of the officers appointed over me,
the rules and articles of war, and the regulations which have been
or may hereafter be established for the government of the Military
Academy"
Beside the point. The issue is the oath that
West Point cadets took when GRADUATING, not when
they entered as cadets.
Actually, the key point is that Lee and others formally resigned their
commissions.
They had sworn an oath to the
United States, they betrayed that
oath and waged war against the United
States. Isn't that.........treason?
treason
-the offense of acting to overthrow one's
government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
-a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign
or to one's state.
-the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach
of faith; treachery.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/treason
In order to answer that question, one must determine to what entity
allegiance is owed. Those men who resigned their commissions in the US
Army and then "went south" had concluded that their allegiance to their
state outweigh any allegiance they might have owed to the national
government.
David, you might ask Hollowman how many Confederate soldiers were ever
charged or tried for treason. I believe the answer is zero, therefore
they were not guilty of treason.
https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2020/07/11/were-confederate-soldiers-tried-for-treason/
You likely have a point, but don't expect him to admit it.
Mitchell is only interested in 'facts' that support his dearly-held
biases.

He never changes. Same BS year after year.
David Hartung
2021-06-01 12:24:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:05:32 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:05:26 -0500, Mitchell Holman
On Mon, 31 May 2021 16:31:07 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32:14 -0500, David Hartung
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-oblitera
te-me morial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a
Confederate Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the
American left continues its campaign to rewrite history.
The city of Richmond, Virginia, is currently finalizing plans to
disinter the remains of Gen. Ambrose Powell “A.P.” Hill and to
tear down the monument that honors his life. WRIC-TV reported
that, under the orders from city officials, including millennial
Democratic Mayor Levar Stoney, Hill will be dug up and erased
from the city’s collective memory.
A committee right now is looking over the logistics of that, and
is working with descendants of Hill regarding where to relocate
his remains. [...]
Hill is being canceled 136 years after he was shot through the
heart by a Union soldier on April 2, 1865 — just weeks before the
end of the Civil War. By all accounts, Hill never owned any
slaves and never supported slavery. He simply felt compelled to
fight for Virginians during a time when many Americans were more
concerned about their neighbors and their individual states than
their loyalty to the nation as a whole.
[...]
This is a key point, Loyalty to the national government rather
than to the state was still a developing concept in 1861.
When Hill graduated West Point
he swore an oath of loyalty the US
Constitution, not his state.
And he properly resigned that commission when he decided that his
loyalty properly belonged to the state of Virginia.
Actually, he never swore an oath to the Constitution.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
My understanding is that their was no swearing in at West Point
graduation and the oaths were when the officers were sworn in to the
state militia.
You are, as usual, wrong.
"I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm)
that I will support and defend the Constitution
of the United States against all enemies, foreign
and domestic; that I will bear true faith and
allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental reservation or purpose
of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully
execute the duties of the office on which I am
about to enter, so help me God."
https://tinyurl.com/48wbc98r
Hollowhead imagines West Point rules were the same back before the
Civil War.
Holman does that sort of thing often.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
I'm sure Hollowman did not bother researching the history. His
references, when he gives them at all, are very often a mile wide and
an inch deep.
Yeah, I posted that yesterday, he has seen it and has ignored it.
Jonathan
2021-06-01 14:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hartung
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:05:32 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:05:26 -0500, Mitchell Holman
On Mon, 31 May 2021 16:31:07 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32:14 -0500, David Hartung
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-oblitera
te-me morial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a
Confederate Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the
American left continues its campaign to rewrite history.
The city of Richmond, Virginia, is currently finalizing plans to
disinter the remains of Gen. Ambrose Powell “A.P.” Hill and to
tear down the monument that honors his life. WRIC-TV reported
that, under the orders from city officials, including millennial
Democratic Mayor Levar Stoney, Hill will be dug up and erased
from the city’s collective memory.
A committee right now is looking over the logistics of that, and
is working with descendants of Hill regarding where to relocate
his remains. [...]
Hill is being canceled 136 years after he was shot through the
heart by a Union soldier on April 2, 1865 — just weeks before the
end of the Civil War. By all accounts, Hill never owned any
slaves and never supported slavery. He simply felt compelled to
fight for Virginians during a time when many Americans were more
concerned about their neighbors and their individual states than
their loyalty to the nation as a whole.
[...]
This is a key point, Loyalty to the national government rather
than to the state was still a developing concept in 1861.
         When Hill graduated West Point
he swore an oath of loyalty the US
Constitution, not his state.
And he properly resigned that commission when he decided that his
loyalty properly belonged to the state of Virginia.
Actually, he never swore an oath to the Constitution.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
My understanding is that their was no swearing in at West Point
graduation and the oaths were when the officers were sworn in to the
state militia.
     You are, as usual, wrong.
"I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm)
that I will support and defend the Constitution
of the United States against all enemies, foreign
and domestic; that I will bear true faith and
allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental reservation or purpose
of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully
execute the duties of the office on which I am
about to enter, so help me God."
https://tinyurl.com/48wbc98r
Hollowhead imagines West Point rules were the same back before the
Civil War.
Holman does that sort of thing often.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
I'm sure Hollowman did not bother researching the history. His
references, when he gives them at all, are very often a mile wide and
an inch deep.
Yeah, I posted that yesterday, he has seen it and has ignored it.
OK then the Confederate Generals TOOK AN OATH TO DESTROY AMERICA.

And that makes them heroes in your eyes eh?

Oh wait, it's just about history right?
Ya right, you think you're fooling anyone with
half a brain?

This is the 'history' of Confederate monuments.
Those monuments should be ground into gravel
for our sidewalks, so we can walk and...spit on them
every single day.

Most of the Confederate statues went up
at the same time the KKK made a comeback.

That wasn't a coincidence.

It was their way of letting everyone know
white supremacy runs the nation, just like
today with Trumpsters bringing white supremacy
back into the mainstream today.

You say it's about history, but are ignorant
of this simple and defining fact of this
specific period of history.

Why is that? Does below sound familiar???

See the chart in the first link, most statues
were build in the early 1900's, the same time
the KKK made it's big comeback.


Confederate Statues Were Never Really About Preserving
History
By Ryan Best

Confederate monuments by year dedicated
(chart)

The biggest spike in Confederate memorials came during the
early 1900s, soon after Southern states enacted a number
of sweeping laws to disenfranchise Black Americans and
segregate society. During this period, more than 400 monuments
were built as part of an organized strategy to reshape
Civil War history. And this effort was largely spearheaded
by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, who sponsored
hundreds of statues, predominantly in the South in the
early 20th century — and as recently as 2011.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/confederate-statues/


The Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s

Nearly 50 years later, in 1915, "Colonel" William Joseph
Simmons, revived the Klan after seeing D. W. Griffith's
film Birth of A Nation, which portrayed the Klansmen as great heroes
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/flood-klan/





HUMAN RIGHTS
POLITICS
HISTORY
The group behind Confederate monuments also built a memorial to the Klan

Consider the United Daughters of the Confederacy. The
Richmond, Virginia-based group is best known for erecting
monuments to Confederate veterans, but its influence on
American history is far more pervasive.

It was against this backdrop that the UDC flourished, eventually
growing to almost 100,000** members nationwide and gaining
an astounding amount of political power for a women's
organization in a time when women could not even vote.

To that end, the UDC launched a long-term campaign to re-write
the history of the Civil War, the South, and the country.
By building monuments to the Confederacy and gaining control
of school curricula, the Daughters spread a false history
aimed at perpetuating the culture and ideals of the
Civil War-era South, a society built on white supremacy.
And they were remarkably successful.

Their delivery vehicle was the "Lost Cause" ideology, which
promoted broad, romanticized, largely fictional assertions
designed to absolve the South from any blame in the Civil War
and to vindicate the Southern cause. It was pure propaganda.
Its core assertions:

States rights (usually, the right to secede) and not slavery
were the cause of the Civil War.

Slaves were content and happy and not mistreated in slavery.
In fact, they benefited from slavery.

Confederate soldiers were heroic, mythical figures to be revered
for defending the South and its way of life.

Although never named as its goal, white supremacy underpins
the entire "Lost Cause" ideology. To focus only on one part,
like the monument building, means missing the forest
for the trees.


https://www.facingsouth.org/2018/06/group-behind-confederate-monuments-also-built-memorial-klan
--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1
Kurt Nicklas
2021-06-01 14:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan
Post by David Hartung
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:05:32 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:05:26 -0500, Mitchell Holman
On Mon, 31 May 2021 16:31:07 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32:14 -0500, David Hartung
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-oblitera
te-me morial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a
Confederate Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the
American left continues its campaign to rewrite history.
The city of Richmond, Virginia, is currently finalizing plans to
disinter the remains of Gen. Ambrose Powell “A.P.” Hill and to
tear down the monument that honors his life. WRIC-TV reported
that, under the orders from city officials, including millennial
Democratic Mayor Levar Stoney, Hill will be dug up and erased
from the city’s collective memory.
A committee right now is looking over the logistics of that, and
is working with descendants of Hill regarding where to relocate
his remains. [...]
Hill is being canceled 136 years after he was shot through the
heart by a Union soldier on April 2, 1865 — just weeks before the
end of the Civil War. By all accounts, Hill never owned any
slaves and never supported slavery. He simply felt compelled to
fight for Virginians during a time when many Americans were more
concerned about their neighbors and their individual states than
their loyalty to the nation as a whole.
[...]
This is a key point, Loyalty to the national government rather
than to the state was still a developing concept in 1861.
         When Hill graduated West Point
he swore an oath of loyalty the US
Constitution, not his state.
And he properly resigned that commission when he decided that his
loyalty properly belonged to the state of Virginia.
Actually, he never swore an oath to the Constitution.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
My understanding is that their was no swearing in at West Point
graduation and the oaths were when the officers were sworn in to the
state militia.
     You are, as usual, wrong.
"I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm)
that I will support and defend the Constitution
of the United States against all enemies, foreign
and domestic; that I will bear true faith and
allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental reservation or purpose
of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully
execute the duties of the office on which I am
about to enter, so help me God."
https://tinyurl.com/48wbc98r
Hollowhead imagines West Point rules were the same back before the
Civil War.
Holman does that sort of thing often.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
I'm sure Hollowman did not bother researching the history. His
references, when he gives them at all, are very often a mile wide and
an inch deep.
Yeah, I posted that yesterday, he has seen it and has ignored it.
OK then
<snip>

This 'Jonathan' character isn't really working for you, Dwarf.

Time to rethink?
Jonathan
2021-06-01 23:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Jonathan
Post by David Hartung
On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 05:05:32 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:05:26 -0500, Mitchell Holman
On Mon, 31 May 2021 16:31:07 -0500, David Hartung
On Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32:14 -0500, David Hartung
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-officials-cooking-plan-oblitera
te-me morial-grave-confederate-unearth-deceased-officer/
[...]
Democrats in Virginia are set to dig up the remains of a
Confederate Civil War general and tear down a memorial as the
American left continues its campaign to rewrite history.
The city of Richmond, Virginia, is currently finalizing plans to
disinter the remains of Gen. Ambrose Powell “A.P.” Hill and to
tear down the monument that honors his life. WRIC-TV reported
that, under the orders from city officials, including millennial
Democratic Mayor Levar Stoney, Hill will be dug up and erased
from the city’s collective memory.
A committee right now is looking over the logistics of that, and
is working with descendants of Hill regarding where to relocate
his remains. [...]
Hill is being canceled 136 years after he was shot through the
heart by a Union soldier on April 2, 1865 — just weeks before the
end of the Civil War. By all accounts, Hill never owned any
slaves and never supported slavery. He simply felt compelled to
fight for Virginians during a time when many Americans were more
concerned about their neighbors and their individual states than
their loyalty to the nation as a whole.
[...]
This is a key point, Loyalty to the national government rather
than to the state was still a developing concept in 1861.
         When Hill graduated West Point
he swore an oath of loyalty the US
Constitution, not his state.
And he properly resigned that commission when he decided that his
loyalty properly belonged to the state of Virginia.
Actually, he never swore an oath to the Constitution.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
My understanding is that their was no swearing in at West Point
graduation and the oaths were when the officers were sworn in to the
state militia.
     You are, as usual, wrong.
"I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm)
that I will support and defend the Constitution
of the United States against all enemies, foreign
and domestic; that I will bear true faith and
allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental reservation or purpose
of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully
execute the duties of the office on which I am
about to enter, so help me God."
https://tinyurl.com/48wbc98r
Hollowhead imagines West Point rules were the same back before the
Civil War.
Holman does that sort of thing often.
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
I'm sure Hollowman did not bother researching the history. His
references, when he gives them at all, are very often a mile wide and
an inch deep.
Yeah, I posted that yesterday, he has seen it and has ignored it.
OK then
<snip>
This 'Jonathan' character isn't really working for you, Dwarf.
Time to rethink?
https://ged.com/
--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1
Loading...